Motion to arrest Herald Holswort

Greetings Fellow Gryphons,

We have for years prepared in expectation of the upcoming battles with Hochstib's forces, refutted all claims of the Empire's to take over the Landing since it is out of their power sphere, and held back all mercenary forces, but still the piggish Ambassador Holswort remains in our lands.

He appeared many months ago, shouting his inconsequential banter, while he knew and we knew he was only their as a "Glorified" Spy. We have taken his insults stoicly, put on a smile and done our best to accomadate him, but his treachery is clearly evident.

Thus I motion to have him arrested under suspicion to cause murder against Brinn and the Council, which we have evidence to in some fashion, conspiracy and espionage with regards to the attacks by the Krols as well as several others including his "Guards" as possible imposters to the Order of the Golvern Fist.

By my hand,
Geijon Khyree

I find it hard to argue with the arguments put forth here. I read somewhere once that donkeys, when surrounded by wolves, turn their heads to the center, so as to rely on their most lethal protection (their hind hoofs) and simply wait for the wolves to advance.

A good tactic, but one that leaves the wolves hours to sniff out and endure the weak spots, and one that ultimately leads to victory for the wolves simply through attrition. In other words, good tactic, horrible strategy. I've not been around the Gryphons even one third the time Sir Geijon has, but it seems all to obvious that our efforts amount to little more than a group of donkeys. Or is this wrong?

Kriztian, apprentice to Sir Geijon

I also agree with Geijon, I am growing sick and tired of these polotical games we play with him. Great analogy, though where are thoes wolves obviously sniffing?

Lady Kiora

I have a question here. Do we know anything about how close Hochstib is to being ready to offer battle? If by removing Holswort, we can force him to commit prematurely with his intelligence network weakened, then it would appear to be a good maneuver. However, if Hochstib is not close enough to being ready, all he'll do is slip in another agent, one that we'll probably have to ferret out.

That brings me to my second point. We all know Holswort is Jantalaran because he's been singularly inept at his job. I submit that the possibility exists that he is a stalking horse. He could be here just to look obvious and draw our attention away from other espionage efforts, so even if we're focused on Holswort, we need to keep our eyes open for others who are more discreet.

Third point. If we violate diplomatic immunity, what's to stop Hochstib from doing the same? At some point, our goals may depend on getting a diplomatic envoy to the Jantalaran court. Granted, any envoys of ours' in a Jantalaran court is already at risk, but they still have protection from being openly attacked in situations where Jantalar can't claim noninvolvement. Fourth point. I tend to agree that we've waited quite a long time, and I'm not sure which side time is on. I ask if there are any other things we could do for an opening move? If the enemy gets you reacting to him instead of acting, he's already won at least half the battle. What can we do that will catch Jantalar off guard and make them scramble to play catch-up? Another point of tactics here. It is recommended that if you are attacking, you should outnumber the defenders by a fair margin. This is safe, orthodox military doctrine. Here is an observation about defense which we have experienced ourselves in some measure, but not to a great extent. To defend something, you generally do not know when or where you're going to be attacked, so you need to spread your assets out to cover all possible avenues. I realize that the Jantalaran lands are uncharted, and so is Hochstib's staging point, but if possible, it'd be worthwhile to strike at their supply train. My suspicion is that this will be a long fight. He has overwhelming numerical superiority, and probably a force-multiplier in form of the Mandis Crystal, but there's something I figured out during Edumond's discussions. Part of the reason that we've never been defeated in invasions is because there is no central core for them to strike at. They can smash small pockets of us, but there'll always be more fighters. They can invade the fogging points, but they can't stop us, because there is no one central core of resistance. That means that Hochstib cannot do a lightning strike to decapicate the Landing defense and then eat up the body at his leisure. This will be a war of attrition, long and bloody. It may be a siege, but for some reason I don't think it will be. My eventual point is, in a war of attrition, supplies will be essential for Hochstib's forces to keep on fighting. Hochstib's army is a lot bigger, but it has more vulnerabilities than ours'. Remember, the bigger they are, the more mess they make once you've borrowed Dogor from Thrudh.

- Metadi

Fellow Order Members,

I understand your sense of ugency, and I share in the frustration at how long this has played out. However, let's not be goaded into the course of action that Hochstib seems to want.

There are some nagging questions for me in this matter:
- Why does Hochstib continually return?
- Why did he want us to kill him?
- Why does he now bring body guards, if he did indeed want us to kill him before?
- Does he want us to arrest him?
- Does he simply have no fear of us?
- What is his true mission?
- Is he here just to cause unrest?
- Is he here as a spy to report intelligence (I find this unlikely)?
- Is he here to drum up support for Jantalar?

What I would point out to you is that he has repeatedly called upon his station and his rank to make himself immune to our requests and our laws. He only has recognized Cemb in the past (that I can recall). If we do act against him, we do not have the excuse of not knowing who he was or that we could not detain him.

I find it an interesting question to ask, what would happen to our Herald or the Herald of Vornavis if they were to walk into Jantalar? Would they be unmolested, as he largely has been?

The Golvern Star business has me confused too. Why would he want to sully the reputation of an Order within the Empire? I didn't read anything in the scrolls sent to me that indicated that this Order would join league with any organization outside of the empire in an action against any part of the empire.

We have no demonstrable proof that he incited or paid the krolvin to attack us, and would have surpassing difficulty in proving or even seriously stating such. It's all conjecture, and his evening walks can be claimed to be just that. We cannot chase people off just because we don't like them. I mean, we can, but it does not become us as Knights. What proof we would need, I do not know. What the proof would be good for, I also do not know. We would not have much of a chance making a case against Holswort with Hochstib, nor with the Empress. With Malwind, maybe...but then, he's already at war with Hochstib.

I will not allow, without further convincing, that Holswort be arrested in the name of the Order. The only thing this can bring us is reprisal, in a number of ways, none of them good. Waiting is not necessarily becoming stale. Motion for the sake of motion is not advisable. Until we have some answers to these questions, there's not much we can do in the way of an intelligent course of action. My suggestion would be to put our energy into trying to gain answers to the main questions. I mean, if we look at it the right way, Jantalar has done us a favor. If Holswort is as inept as you say, then he is basically a fountain of information that Hochstib has sent us. Why don't we change our tactic with him, and stop trying to run him off? I mean, we can't very well get to Jantalar, but Jantalar seems to have come to us. Let's use the opportunity, and learn what we can. If we cannot trust what we learn, then it helps us rule out possibilities. We need to think more creatively here than with swords and shackles. The time to call to arms will come soon, but until then, we need to be careful, and guarded about what we do. I will be happy to write more on this and discuss at your convenience.

Your servant,


My Fellow Gryphons,

Our esteemed comrade at arms writes, in his recent missive to the Order: << If we are serious about having any claims of power, it is about time we exercised some of it. >>

Please accept my sincere apologies if I have missed something here. Have we, as the Order of the Silver Gryphons, elected to claim some sort of power within the Landing? Are we recognized by the officials of the Landing, the Mayor or anyone of any official status, as being able to arbitrarily impose rules and then enforce them? If so, I was not aware of this decision. If our task is now to be that of ascertaining the authenticity of the titles and "missions" of all visitors to the Landing, or as they would see it, seeking out reasons to harass citizens of the Empire for the sole purpose of asserting some sort of "power" in the Landing, then perhaps I have mistaken the purpose of our Order.

It was my understanding that our purpose, our charge, is as follows:
To Defend Our Town and The People Who Live Within It.
To Protect Those Who Cannot Protect Themselves.
To Aid Those Who Are in Need, If Their Cause is Just.
To Serve With Honor, By Example and By Deed.

Hochstib is a known entity who poses no immediate threat. Further, I maintain that we are honor bound to respect Holswort's diplomatic immunity as Ambassador and/or Herald for Hochstib. If things are left as they are, he can easily be observed and his actions reported to the Order. I commend all those who have observed Holswort and his cohorts and reported their actions to those of us who were absent during the actual events.

Until and unless we are empowered by the Mayor, a council of town elders, or some other official body, I feel that overt actions should be left to the Constable and the legally appointed Deputies. I am still of the belief that nothing is to be gained by such actions except to play into Holswort's hands, and by proxy, into the hands of Hochstib. Holswort may be as rude as he pleases, he may goad all he likes, but it is my belief that we should be above such behavior. Watch him, most certainly. Interfere with him, I suggest not.

Perhaps it is a fault of my upbringing. My mentors taught me that a warrior must be patient; that all things will unfold as they should and that forcing a situation often puts one in an undesirable position. My perspective on this issue is that time could be our advantage. The longer we delay a direct confrontation with Hochstib, the better our chances of gaining the knowledge and skills to forge a bane weapon to defeat his Mandis Crystal.

Speaking strictly from a personal level, I find any intentions of harrying Holswort to be both dishonorable and demeaning to my perception of knightly conduct. As a warrior, and as a Member of the Order, I recognize that I have much to learn and therefore welcome this mentally stimulating discussion.

However, I must reiterate my position against action until such time as there is either a more pressing threat, or the Order, as a whole, agrees to such action and it is endorsed by our Leader. Until then, I yield to the wise words of Sir Brinn and Sir Welan. If possible, I would welcome the input of Sir Maldon whose experience in the broader realm of the Empire no doubt will be most beneficial to us in dealing with this situation.


Quite simply put I think Brinn and Ruffelin have the right of it here. I simply don't see what damage Holsworth is cappable of doing other then goading us into reckless action which would reflect poorly on the Order both here at home and in the Empire.

As a spy he is a surpassingly poor one and anything he has learned is nothing more then common knowledge available to any travaler who entered our gates.

As an ambassador he has accomplished little more then swaying a couple of weak-minded fools like Dantoric, who seem to flock to the banner of any potential agressor (like the Bregs) in a vain attempt to gain some noteriaty for themselves.

As an agent provocatuer, he may have hand in stiring up some Krolvin raids..... but Krolvin raids are nothing new to the Landing and have been occuring (and been repulsed) since long before the majority of the Order was even born. They are annoying and somewhat damaging, but hardly a serious threat.... and have hardly needed outside provocation in the past.

Though certainly galling, I just don't see how Holsworth poses that serious of a threat that we need to take drastic action against. Furthermore, though it may only be a thinly disguised facade, he IS an ambassador....and harming one IS a serious breach of diplomatic and civil conduct. One that I personaly dont see is justified by the threat he poses.


Holswort aside, I personally am more bothered by these two supposed knights who accompanied him on his latest tour. It would be good to attempt to locate Edumond and interview him on the matter. Again, both 'knights' denied knowing him, which, even if the Order of the Golvern Star is large (as they said), I find very hard to believe. What is obvious is that they were indeed inspecting, rather closely, Wehnimer's and it's environs. They even opined openly about our lack of defense, and Holswort quipped to them about the number of entrances/exits he knew about. . .

I have no evidence, but my instincts tell me that these two were, indeed, impostors: either simple hired hands or Hotchstib fiters in disguise . . .

Thanks all for this dialogue, respectfully,
Kriztian, apprentice to Geijon

Honorable persons,

The closest that I know of to actual recognition of Holswort's status occurred just prior to the Bregandian invasion. Lady Arwen met with Holswort, Baron Malwind and the Bregandian leader (whose name slips my mind) on top of Hearthstone Manor. It appeared that Baron Malwind accepted Holswort as Baron Hochstib's emissary at that meeting.

Respectfully submitted,
Hyoko Fujimoro

Hail all,

I submit that Holswort, if he is to continue to benefit from the protection afforded him by his political position, must be required to tender specific reasons for any visit paid to our towns. If he can provide no specific or honorable reason for these visits, or should he stray from any reason given, I feel we are more than within our rights to bar him from our lands or remove him from them once he enters. Such is the case with any true dignitary visiting a foreign land. If he refuses to provide us with this information, then we have legal grounds to deny him any rights as an ambassador.

Locking him up may be premature at this point, for as many have stated, he hasn't necessarily broken any laws and unduely threatened us. However, we are foolish to think that he may be harmless. Besides, I am tired of letting this pathetic little fool come and go as he pleases. If we are serious about having any claims of power, it is about time we exercised some of it.


I would just like to add a small point in this discussion:

We can not take the law into our hands and expel/eliminate/remove Holswort ourselves. Beyond the other reasons that have been stated, I would like to point out that from a Public Relations point of view, it would harm us severely. People already dislike the Order simply because we exist. If we have the gall to take actions as representatives of the town, we are asking for a backlash from the citizens.

We serve the town. We work to help the town. We do not work towards controlling the town. We are not here to rule the town or take action in the name of the town.

If Order members find themselves frustrated when dealing with Holswort, then I suggest they remove themselves from the situation. If you find him to be condescending beyond your ability to cope, then leave his presence. You do NOT have to babysit him. You do NOT have to take any ridicule, attitude, or insult. Just like any other conflict, you can leave.

We should NEVER do anything in anger. If you find yourself getting angry, leave until you can come back and be calm.

Thank you for listening to my opinion.


Perhaps I should have been more careful in my use of the term "power" in my previous message. I am referring rather to "rights". I am aware the Gryphons are not out to enforce their rule upon the lands, but as an Order I am under the assumption that we too have rights and we should have the ability to exercise those rights. Furthermore, I would assume that one of our rights would be the freedom to resist invasion. Either invasion by force, or by subtrifuge and espionage. That is the basis for what I believe would be a proper and just cause to ban Holswort from snooping around and causing disturbances.

In this manner, we take no undue action against him, but simply ensure that the purposes for his visits to our lands are not detrimental to us, or those we would seek to protect. We give him all the freedoms to which his is truly entitled, but we do not give him freedoms to which he is NOT entitled. Otherwise, it is quite like letting the fox into the henhouse under the premise that he has not yet killed any chickens.

We have to consider which is more appropriate, making proactive moves on our own volition, or making no moves at all until we are in a reactive position.


This now gives us a fresh perspective and a collective understanding. I indeed would like to find these answers, but they may not come for a great deal of time, sad as that may seem. Thus we now have a clearer course of action to take when dealing with this nuisance of an ambassador.

~Geijon Khyree